Re: [-empyre-] on meaningful articulations : strategies

["christina ulke" <christina@journalofaestheticsandprotest.org>]

Robby -

I am not "condemming" commodification, nor am I purging or discounting 
Mathias and his collaborators.  I was raising the question if 
commodification can be used as a strategy - for example to reach a larger 
audience. Since we are talking about commodification of discourse this week, 
I thought it might be useful to talk about a project in our own time and 
place, rather than going back to Sekula all the time.
(btw - i  do like fallen fruit:), as I like the story of fish)

- cu

xtina wrote:

"But how do you measure effectivity?"
and
"Or is this commodification even  necessary to be effective?" (in relation 
to fallen fruit)



robby wrote:

"First off, I would like to state straight fowardly that I find it very hard 
to condemn any artists for trying to make a  living. This may be percieved 
as cynical and counterproductive, however I find it very unproductive to get 
into  conversations about whether somebody has sold out or not. I may be 
disapointed with someone who stops having an "embodied practice" but I am 
aware of how fucking hard it is for people to try to live as an "artist"- 
especially an  artists that doesn't make objects to sell. I think that the 
terms of this selling out have been extremely well defined and debated in 
the last thirty years, and it is a discourse that I am not interested in 
furthering.

.Of course commidification is not neccesary to be effective, but it is a 
very interesting and also potentially problematic sphere to engage. Just 
because it is problematic doesn't mean that it shouldn't be engaged with. 
Some people think they can ride the tiger and beat it. I think looking at 
the Ecology or Organics food  movement might be instructive here. Would the 
world have been better off if these concepts hadn't become branded? How 
about the womens movement, the brand of "roe vs wade" ? I don't know, and I 
am not sure how to
measure this. But it would be an interesting study...

Media exists on a spectrum, and while I tend to be interested in the more 
dangerious variety, I also will not discount or purge others for not living 
up to my expectations. In a sense this is like  shooting ourselves in the 
foot. "







Robby wrote:
> I am very  skeptical that Art, and artists when articulated as individual
> practitioners, abstracted from a political, social, or cultural base, can
> have an actual effect here
and
> While Fish Story is a solid and even innovative practice of documentary
> photography- it, like Sekula's practice- becomes a stand in for the real in
> the capitalist art marketplace, as he is bandied about as the last
> standing Marxist in contemporary art


Ryan wrote

> along the lines of Kenneth's questions, i'm also interested in the
> engagement with criticality as an "embodied" practice (to use Brian's
> phrase).


Ryan wrote
> this is what i've seen as part of the journal's project (not to say
> that for everyone else, of course). at some point, we have to evaluate
> the state of embodiment. is the materialization of a given discourse
> just producing books and conferences?


i've been thinking about de Certeau's use of "tactics" v
> "strategy" in relation to the militaristic use of those concepts...
> (thanks to a recent discussion with the center for tactical magic)
> a lot of critically engaged practice has put much faith in the notion
> of tactics as a reactionary form of practice, whether of the direct
> action kind, or the unconscious everyday method of coping. but i'm
> wondering if it's not important now to develop notions of strategy...
> what would a "strategical media" look like?
> this is what i've seen as part of the journal's project (not to say
> that for everyone else, of course). at some point, we have to evaluate
> the state of embodiment. is the materialization of a given discourse
> just producing books and conferences? or is it interfacing with life in
> other ways? i certainly am not saying i know how to evaluate this (if
> it's even possible) but it seems the questions would have to be raised.
> as to the question about where commodification (fetishism) is
> happening... i think there are multiple ways that one could site that.
> certainly the publishing system, and what's been called the
> "academic-military-entertainment complex" on other lists recently...
> best,
> ryan





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